EMDR Remedy and Psychological Well being Help with Susie Morgan, LMFT, BCETS

Betty Rocker (00:15):

What’s up, Rockstars Coach Betty Rocker right here, and I’m actually glad you’re right here too. Sooner or later, you might have heard me discuss a sort of remedy that I used known as EMDR, which stands for Eye Motion Desensitization and Reprocessing. And it’s actually identified for its capacity to deal with PTSD and traumatic occasions. There’s plenty of completely different sorts of therapeutic practices on the market, and with regards to our psychological well being, it’s actually essential to discover a good match and the fitting instruments for addressing our particular person considerations so we will dwell extra full and significant lives. After going by a extremely troublesome interval of my very own life and being recognized with nervousness and melancholy, one of many suggestions I used to be given was to hunt EMDR remedy.

(01:02)
I’ll share a bit extra about my expertise with it on the present right this moment as a result of the individual I’ve introduced to speak to us is the superb therapist I labored with, and I’m actually excited so that you can meet her. She actually helped me change my mind and my life. Susie Morgan is a licensed marriage and household therapist, board licensed skilled in trauma stress, and a licensed EMDR therapist specializing within the remedy of advanced PTSD and attachment trauma. Along with her follow, she’s additionally an E-M-D-R-I-A accepted guide and coach, and the founding father of the Precision EMDR Academy, a boutique coaching company that equips and mentors clinicians to offer secure and efficient EMDR remedy. She is devoted to offering each a excessive stage of care in her personal therapeutic follow and advancing the excellence within the subject of EMDR. I felt that she was uniquely outfitted to share extra about EMDR with us and provide you with a way of what it’s used for, who may profit from it, and how much issues it treats, and learn how to discover and vet a terrific practitioner. So be a part of me in welcoming her to the present. Welcome, Susie. It’s so nice to have you ever right here with me. Thanks a lot for being right here.

Susie Morgan (02:22):

Thanks for having me. That is completely my honor, so thanks.

Betty Rocker (02:26):

Oh my gosh. Properly, I’ve been so excited to have a dialog about EMDR so that folks would study it, individuals who’ve perhaps heard about it could get extra conversant in it, as a result of I really feel prefer it’s form of, it’s a more recent follow with regards to the therapeutic arts within the larger scheme of remedy. Is that right?

Susie Morgan (02:51):

Sure and no, as a result of that’s a bit of little bit of a false impression as a result of it’s actually been round since 1987. And so what which means is that although it’s not as outdated as clearly like Freudian remedy and people actually conventional fashions or cognitive behavioral, it, it isn’t new. And so it’s, it really has had loads of time to truly develop out an extremely sturdy, like encyclopedia of analysis, not solely displaying that it treats PTSD, but additionally a variety of different problems that folks can current with. And so it’s really a false impression that it’s new, it’s simply newer that folks find out about it and

Betty Rocker (03:34):

Newer that folks find out about it. Properly, would perhaps, like I ought to ask the primary query, which is, what does EMDR stand for and what does it particularly deal with? As a result of I feel that’s actually fascinating. It’s, it’s very distinctive within the therapeutic arts.

Susie Morgan (03:50):

Okay. So the, the inventor of EMDR would’ve renamed it. She mentioned if she had had an opportunity, however by the point it was extra well-known and being researched, she was like, okay, that is what it’s known as. So it stands for eye motion desensitization and reprocessing. And so let me break that down. So it makes use of eye motion. Historically, you should utilize different means to permit for the, the mind to mainly replicate what occurs throughout REM sleep, we expect with a purpose to really reconsolidate recollections. And so you should utilize different duties, different bilateral sorts of motion with, with tactile and even tones with a purpose to create this impact. In order that’s the attention motion a part of it. It’s utilizing this particular bilateral, units of actions with a purpose to stimulate the mind to enter right into a reminiscence reconsolidation mode. After which the desensitization and reprocessing are the 2 issues that it’s doing.

(04:53)
What it’s doing is it’s taking the activation of those recollections and desensitizing that. So taking, taking the cost out of it, taking that chunk out of the reminiscence, after which it’s reprocessing it. So it’s really connecting it as much as adaptive info and adaptive info. Is that this actuality based mostly or soothing or, constructive info that claims it’s over and actually undoes the educational and connects it as much as what really the mind already is aware of. However when a reminiscence is maladaptively saved, it doesn’t absorb the entire context of issues. It doesn’t absorb the truth that issues are over or that in truth, although you recognize it’s true, prefer it doesn’t really feel true. So it it, it connects all that up.

Betty Rocker (05:39):

What’s the eye motion a part of eye motion desensitization reprocessing? Is your eye simply going backwards and forwards otherwise you snapping your fingers? What’s occurring? Is there lights?

Susie Morgan (05:49):

So through the years, devices have been invented and since mainly the secret is you are attempting to have that shopper’s eyes shuttle throughout the sphere division as quickly as they will bodily tolerate whereas holding the reminiscence materials in thoughts. And so you’ll be able to have somebody, holding a, you recognize, a set of buzzers of their palms that gentle up they usually can look backwards and forwards between the lights. The buzzing can also be another that enables there to be a tactile stage of stimulation for that backwards and forwards in order that, individuals who can’t use their eyes for this course of really can have an efficient type of bilateral stimulation. There are eye, like, like eye motion machines the place mainly you’ll be able to, you’ll be able to observe a lightweight bar backwards and forwards, or there’s like these containers you’ll be able to maintain that can trigger your lights to return, trigger your eyes to shuttle as you observe the lights.

(06:49)
There are laptop packages which have a bit of bouncing ball that shuttle, however backside line is you don’t want machines. You simply want some mechanism for eyes to shuttle. So I do, I do EMDR on-line on a regular basis now with none equipment in anyway, with none particular packages. I simply have individuals pinching their fingers backwards and forwards with their eyes held a few shoulder width aside. They observe their very own pinches, and that produces the efficient eye motion. However mainly what we’ve proven in analysis is that eye motion is the simplest technique to create the reminiscence reconsolidation course of that we’re on the lookout for. Nonetheless, these different strategies tactile and, an auditory can produce an identical stage, however there does appear to be greater than, extra at play than simply that your eyes are going backwards and forwards. There’s, there’s the chance that that’s, activating a rem like mechanism of sleep.

(07:48)
We see chemical, chemical, related chemical compounds produced within the mind, related brainwaves. It additionally seems that work taxing working reminiscence is likely one of the the explanation why it’s efficient. It’s not as snug, it’s not as enjoyable to have to truly like, like do a elaborate patterning together with your fingers when you have the buzzing or matching your eye actions together with your pinches. However that truly causes the troublesome reminiscence materials to metabolize sooner. However for those who overtax working reminiscence, you lower on that reprocessing portion. So it’s, there’s type of a candy spot, and it’s completely different for every individual on how a lot, how arduous we would like them to work whereas they’re doing the bilateral processing.

Betty Rocker (08:35):

What’s a, what’s a superb instance of a maladaptive reminiscence that somebody may need that was not connecting? Proper? Or what occurs in, in remedy?

Susie Morgan (08:46):

So an instance of a, a trauma reminiscence can be a canine chunk. So a bit of woman, she’s in her entrance yard, A canine comes by, bites her. There’s two methods the mind can go along with that. One we’d name maladaptive. One we’d name adaptive. And so it, it, and the distinction is how does the reminiscence find yourself being saved by the mind, which components of the mind are concerned? And so if it’s maladaptively saved, it will get at, it will get saved in nearly like this authentic type. Like the entire, the visible sight sounds feels of that second are identical to encapsulated in time. And so she might be 30 years outdated and it feels prefer it occurred yesterday when she thinks of it. So it, it shops sizzling within the visible cortex of the mind, the emotional cortex of the mind. And the fascinating factor is the logical components of the mind that claims it’s over, you’re secure now. That form of factor. The, that entire piece of the mind doesn’t even come on-line. So it’s all sight sounds, feels, and feelings, and it’s sizzling and it’s saved that approach moderately than it’s over, I’m secure. It occurred a very long time in the past. Now I do know that, you recognize, you must, you recognize, type of just remember to don’t simply pet a canine. You don’t know , that type of factor,

Betty Rocker (10:10):

Proper? So, so the expertise that an individual would have who had these two completely different storages of the reminiscence is one little woman is perhaps afraid of canines without end as a result of that reminiscence’s all the time burning brilliant and burning sizzling with all of that saved stuff the place the opposite little woman who’s,  it’s not saved in a unfavorable approach. She simply is extra cautious in approaching canines the place the opposite woman is perhaps afraid to method a canine in that sense. Yeah. So the, the trauma impacts how we behave in several methods shifting ahead is what you’re saying

Susie Morgan (10:40):

In that form of adaptive versus maladaptive piece. Adaptive is, I’m secure now on a really primary stage and I can hold myself secure now, or it’s, I’m not secure. And so the physique goes in a combat or flight, if something reminds the nervous system of that incident. And there’s really three sorts of trauma I consider that actually, actually matter. And so it’s very a lot increasing out the definition of the phrase in a, in a approach that I feel is essential as a result of there’s so many individuals who say, effectively, I don’t have trauma. I wasn’t at battle, I wasn’t assaulted, that type of factor. So, so EMDR remedy isn’t for me or pondering of myself as having trauma that I would wish to reprocess by that might be affecting my signs.  That simply doesn’t, that simply doesn’t come of their conceptualization

Betty Rocker (11:30):

Certain.

Susie Morgan (11:31):

Of what they’re coping with, and subsequently it stops them from getting assist they may get. So the three sorts of trauma that I feel are actually essential to know are that massive T trauma. In order that’s classically what we perceive as, yeah, blood fireplace battle assault, that’s what that’s conceptualized as. Then you may have, little t traumas or what are antagonistic life occasions. And these are issues that typically individuals, you recognize, another person may take a look at that and be like, effectively, that’s no massive deal. So that is like bullying. Or it’s issues like, you recognize, somebody, somebody being a jerk at work or somebody calling you a reputation on the playground or your sister leaving you out, like that type of factor. So, so these are your little, little to your antagonistic life occasions. However really what’s much more important, I feel, is knowing advanced with advanced, developmental trauma, which is extra frequent than you may suppose, is when early attachment wants aren’t met.

(12:32)
And, or then if there’s additionally some abuse or issues like that in these early years that it, that’s actually really what can create the longest and most pervasive points with nervousness, melancholy, all kinds of issues that we simply consider like, oh, these are psychological well being points, when really, if we return, we’re trying on the absence of attunement and even the absence of play, which is fascinating. The absence of safety. This, you recognize, simply not having the steering you want, like learn how to shave your legs, learn how to cope with a, a bully peer. Like all of those completely different items actually make a distinction within the capacity of that individual’s nervous system to resist the stressors that can come. And so oftentimes when these form of developmental early attachment wants aren’t met, then you may have extra of a, of a susceptibility for the mind to maladaptively maintain these later occasions. So it’s, it’s actually difficult.

Betty Rocker (13:38):

Properly, not, I feel you defined it superbly in order that the three sorts, there’s the large Ts, there’s the, the little ts, that are, what did you name them? Opposed occasions. After which there’s additionally the attachment points. And, and attachment principle is completely fascinating. I do not forget that you really helpful the e-book connected to me years in the past, and it was so useful in a, a, giving me a framework of understanding the distinction between the, anxious avoidant and the safe attachment types, that are these three attachment types. And simply saying them, it, it makes a lot sense why anxious and avoidant can be so polarized for those who guys take into consideration that. It’s so fascinating. After which how can we create safety, proper? And, and completely different elements of our life. However, that was, that was actually fascinating that that comes into play in, in what’s handled inside the scope of EMDR. We wanna speak a bit of bit extra about that. ’trigger I feel that’s so fascinating.

Susie Morgan (14:41):

Yeah, I’d like to as a result of it’s, it’s a lot what is available in to the workplace when individuals are saying, my relationships are simply not working mm-hmm . Or I hold moving into the identical kind of form of damaging dynamic with my companions. Mm. And so, so what occurs when these early attachment wants aren’t met is a bit of nervous system is so good and so clever to form of learn the room of the connection with their caregivers, they usually really can learn the room in a different way with completely different caregivers relying on what, what will probably be simplest for his or her must be met. And, and to contextualize this, little mammals can’t survive with out their caregivers attunement to them or their, not attunement, however with out them assembly their wants. Mainly. Like little mammals die if their caregiver type of leaves them by the aspect of the street with out issues. And so people are not any completely different.

(15:40)
And so an toddler or a toddler or issues like that can understand if I cry extra, you come, if I cry much less, you don’t get so mad at me. That form of factor. Mm-hmm. And so what finally ends up occurring once you simply take a look at anxious versus avoidant anxious is, I cry extra, you’ll come mm-hmm. Avoidant is, I cry much less, I’m extra prone to get my wants met, I’m safer right here. After which you may have these very unhappy conditions the place the, the early setting is so harsh and is so each neglectful of those attachment wants in addition to damaging by abuse or issues like that, that the nervous system will be taught. Like, okay, generally I cry louder, generally I shut down. Prefer it’s this entire like, like dance of simply to attempt to get wants met in no matter little tiny approach that they will. And the factor is, as soon as the mind locks in on this stuff, identical to trauma recollections, as soon as the mind locks in on these attachments methods or these variations to their en their early setting ring retains doing the identical factor over and time and again, whether or not or not the setting modifications.

(16:49)
And finally the saddest half that I see in my, in my workplace is little nervous techniques as they develop up, select most naturally what seems like dwelling. And they also’ll repeat what they, they went by after they have been small, pondering they’re doing one thing completely different, however then touchdown in the identical kind of of relationship. After which, after which concluding, I’m the issue. It’s as a result of I’m nugatory, I’m unlovable, or regardless of the case is perhaps. When finally, like that’s not the case. It’s actually simply that their nervous system doesn’t know learn how to do one thing completely different. In order that’s the actually cool stuff we will do with superior abilities with EMDR remedy isn’t just resolve these recollections. Like we don’t simply reprocess recollections. We really can really restore and restore the attachment system. So it’s, it’s fairly magic what’s doable and

Betty Rocker (17:44):

All of that, whether or not you’re treating trauma, reminiscence or attachment that’s gotten, it’s, I’m simply picturing like a rug that bought all bunched up and Proper. It’s not, it’s not clean, whether or not you’re treating any of these various things, the, the first final result is a way of safety, a way of security within the self, a way of self that’s mm-hmm . Secure and entire and, and sufficient, proper. For therefore many people who, who, you recognize, search remedy. One factor that I’ve been studying so much these days, and it’s so unusual as a result of we have been gonna have this dialog and I needed to ask you about it. How do we all know that the remedy that we’re doing is correct for us? That’s undoubtedly a query. And, and two, like, why is it that there’s a lot remedy that simply doesn’t appear to work, I assume like, yeah, what’s happening with that?

Susie Morgan (18:41):

So plenty of the rationale why remedy doesn’t work is as a result of it doesn’t really change the best way the nervous system is working. And so what you’re doing is you’re utilizing actually what, what might be actually highly effective instruments, nevertheless it’s extra like manually shifting a automotive moderately than having driving an automated, mainly the place it’s a must to use these abilities with a purpose to shift the mind into that adaptive functioning. So one of many issues that I feel is absolutely, actually essential for, for EMDR therapists to know learn how to do, and it hasn’t been historically educated, however is to essentially be capable of map out what are the first trauma reminiscence networks, the methods the mind has clustered collectively varied experiences, after which is working out of those maladaptive beliefs. So that you’ll have that canine chunk, however then now mother is, you recognize, mother is late choosing you up from daycare, and one way or the other the mind goes, yep, I’m not secure once more.

(19:44)
Otherwise you stroll by a barking canine, who’s actually scary on the best way to soccer follow, and the mind goes, yep, not secure once more. After which it, it’s mainly placing all these recollections collectively right into a cluster and saying, right here’s my proof of idea, I’m not secure. After which something that triggers that trauma, reminiscence community, lights up all of that cluster of experiences, after which the nervous system responds to that. So oftentimes a, a shopper who is available in has a number of clusters, so that they have one cluster proving I’m not secure. Possibly one other cluster saying I’m unlovable, one other cluster saying I don’t belong, or no matter it’s. Like it may be any number of these. And so if now we have that lay of the land, that may be actually useful for us realizing, okay, this, this, I’m not secure is linked to those panic signs, or this, I’m not lovable, is linked to those attachment form of anxious attachment kind methods, regardless of the case is perhaps.

(20:44)
However then now we have this different superb reminiscence community that each one of us have. It’s only for a few of us, it’s, it’s extra effectively developed than others. And it’s the adaptive info community. It’s all these experiences of, of, you recognize, studying or of being cherished or of being restored indirectly, or having, you recognize, a way of belonging as a part of a tradition or a part of a, you recognize, a part of a spiritual follow or a part of a, of a religious group. These, these finest pals or these, these animals that simply love us it doesn’t matter what. All of that. And I consider these as timber. So so mainly there’s, there’s one thing that planted the tree by way of the, these darkish trauma reminiscence networks. There’s an occasion that planted the tree, after which the tree simply grew up and bought larger with all of these different occasions that bought clustered collectively.

(21:37)
Properly, this, this gentle tree, this adaptive info tree of data additionally has, has a approach wherein it was planted. That’s that early attachment system. In order that’s the trunk of that tree. And a few individuals have a spindly trunk, which implies they’re far more prone to the wind blowing after which being taken off stability. After which additionally they can have varied ranges of levels wherein that adaptive info community has been constructed out by all of those different constructive and experiences of resilience, experiences of success, experiences of overcoming all that jazz, so, so lengthy technique to, to put the muse for the reply to your query is mainly therapies, I feel do one in every of two issues. One is they assist improve that gentle tree of adaptive info. So once you’re studying meditation, once you’re studying how to think about the constructive, learn how to deal with what’s true about you, all of that, you’re actually enhancing and specializing in that adaptive info reminiscence community.

(22:45)
And, and so there’s a lot that’s constructive and highly effective about plenty of the therapies on the market that try this. Then there’s one other, type of kind of remedy like cognitive behavioral, the place what it’s doing is it’s, it’s permitting you to problem that activation of that unfavorable reminiscence community and saying, yeah, however keep in mind it’s not true. And so that you try this, that guide shifting by form of logic your self into the sunshine tree. However that’s actually arduous and might really feel like gaslighting actually, once you’re like, however my nervous system says the trauma is what’s true. Not this different logic stuff that I would know in my head.

Betty Rocker (23:28):

That simply is a part of what I assume I’ve been listening to from individuals generally after they say, you recognize, speak remedy or sure sorts of speak remedy, I really feel like I’m simply rehashing these uncomfortable issues time and again with out actually getting wherever. I’m simply spinning my wheels.

Susie Morgan (23:41):

That’s one other kind of remedy. So there may be, there are sorts of remedy the place the thought is that if now we have perception or if we speak sufficient by it, you then’ll get higher. So which means you sit at nighttime hint, you sit in these trauma reminiscence networks throughout trauma, the, throughout your remedy, and that’s alleged to theoretically make you are feeling higher, nevertheless it doesn’t really essentially try this as a result of all you’re doing is form of dwelling within the darkness. And so individuals are like, effectively, I don’t wanna go to my previous. I wanna do these different issues. Properly, that’s nice. Now all you’re doing is manually shifting into the lightness. So what we’re on the lookout for is one thing that truly reconsolidate the reminiscence really shifts the, the, the, the educational that’s occurred within the nervous system. And EMDR will not be the one present on the town that may try this. There are different therapies that truly might be efficient with reminiscence. Reconsolidation, EMDR remedy is only one the place we do get constant outcomes with that when it’s carried out correctly. And in order that’s, yeah.

Betty Rocker (24:42):

That’s, that’s the R and the EMDR, the reprocessing half. Sure. Yeah, that’s the place the mixing occurs. So I’ll share a bit of bit, that, you recognize, however my listeners don’t. After I first began doing EMDR remedy with Susie, it’s been a number of years now since we did this nice work collectively, and we spent a few years doing it. I keep in mind to start with I used to be like, effectively, when are we, when can we get to do the EMDR? Like, when are we gonna get to that half? And what was actually superb is her method was so considerate. She was, she went in and discovered the place now I do know the lingo, after all I didn’t on the time, my clusters, she was on the lookout for the place are the, the networks right here that I must work with. She deliberately discovered the panorama of this thoughts that she was then going to be going into with like her advantageous devices and serving to to reprocess.

(25:38)
Proper? So like, that was such an essential a part of that work. I feel that, that for those who don’t find out about it, you, you don’t know what you don’t know, proper? However I feel it’s so essential. And there’ve been, and there have been additionally issues that you just did to start with that I’ve by no means forgotten. You gave me instruments. I keep in mind a few of the superb instruments that you just gave me to assist me have a way of safety, to have a way of security. After which after all, the precise follow of EMDR, which is so superb. It’s so troublesome to do the work generally, nevertheless it’s additionally so essential. It’s like, you recognize, you guys, like once you do a extremely robust exercise, , such as you gotta put within the work to get the consequence. Nevertheless it felt like there was a real final result coming at the same time as I used to be going by the troublesome elements of it.

(26:26)
And it, it, I used to attempt to clarify what it was love to do, to be an a, a affected person going by E-M-D-R, for those who guys have seen the film “Inside Out,” that is like one of the best ways that I can clarify it. There’s this place that, that they go what’s, which is just like the reminiscence financial institution, and it’s all of those glowing balls of sunshine that they’ve simply stacked up and stacked up and stacked up. And so I all the time pictured just like the trauma recollections as like these like gnarly black balls of sunshine that, that have been like saved within the reminiscence financial institution, that, that have been really infecting all the opposite recollections. As a result of that’s what occurs together with your, with the issues which might be what we name maladaptive. Right. Is that proper terminology? Yeah. So the maladaptive recollections that didn’t really get processed accurately to start with, these are like now infecting the remainder of your recollections.

(27:14)
And so you may have these reactions to issues that you may’t actually management. It’s like bugs in your working system if you’d like like a pc terminology for it. And it was like going by doing the work of the EMDR, you’re like altering the material again to one thing clean. We will return to that rug instance the place the rug was all bunched up and we’re like smoothing out the rug. And now when one thing comes up that was an actual set off or one thing that may, you’ll have like this unavoidable response that you just had no management over, it’s now not there, it’s simply not even a set off. You continue to have the reminiscence of the factor, nevertheless it’s not lit up anymore. And I feel that was so profound for me of just like the expertise of EMDR, of like how a lot it modified the material of my precise being.

(27:58)
Like I felt like I grew to become just like the model of myself. I used to be all the time meant to be by going by that work. And so it makes plenty of sense. This care that’s taken all through the method, particularly to start with, as a result of I’ve had pals inform me – oh why, when – I’ve despatched pals to EMDR they usually’re like why when do I get to do the EMDR? I’m like, let your therapist do these actually essential items initially as a result of they will allow you to get a greater end in the long run. So I feel it’s fascinating the way it

Susie Morgan (28:32):

Works. There’s so many items that you just simply mentioned which might be so essential that I wanna nearly give the again of the home understanding of a bit. Please, please. The, the why. In order that authentic query you requested of like, effectively, how have you learnt for those who’re in the fitting place together with your therapist? Yeah. And I feel there’s that bigger query of like, are you doing a remedy that truly modifications the best way the nervous system is holding the recollections? And, so that you’re re remodeling that entire factor so that you routinely reply in a different way. It’s not that guide management, however once you’re in search of out an EMDR therapist, whether or not or not they take this, this primary like part of the work actually severely is a extremely massive element for deciding whether or not or not you’re in the fitting place.

Betty Rocker (29:22):

Mm.

Susie Morgan (29:22):

And oftentimes, this isn’t the fault of the therapist, it’s the fault of the way it’s historically been educated the place actually it’s such as you do type of like this, this fast, this fast intro and you then simply soar into, to processing trauma recollections. However that’s the place now we have individuals having actually dangerous experiences. And the primary motive is as a result of individuals, individuals aren’t essentially prepared for that but. And or the, the therapist doesn’t essentially have the, the readiness of getting a superb remedy plan in place with a purpose to know why we’re gonna begin right here and go there and go there. And so after I was doing all of these early, type of items of labor with you, it’s, it’s really there, it’s twofold. One is, I really, I’m, I’m purposefully mapping, I’m purposefully supplying you with instruments that matter to your expertise of being within the work, however I’m additionally looking forward to very, very key elements that point out your mind is prepared to do that, that your nervous system can do sure issues.

(30:28)
And so the whole lot I’m doing has a twin function. It’s each getting you prepared, constructing that readiness if I must do extra of one thing, but additionally seeing what’s there and seeing whether or not or not that that further type of prep work is prepared. After which the opposite piece, and that is, that is simply because I wish to point out it, that piece about that grownup, like strongest wisest self being there for little you, that’s the core key characteristic to attachment restore. It’s creating out that grownup self to offer little you what nobody else has been in a position to give us totally and to attract from the fashions of those that have perhaps in items and issues like that. However finally, repairing the attachment system is realizing deep down that you just’ve bought you and that you just’ve

Betty Rocker (31:19):

Bought you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s so Properly, that’s so effectively mentioned. And, and this work is so profound as a result of I feel, our tradition will not be alone in being one which has plenty of addictive compulsive kind of points, nevertheless it actually has so many, and, and I feel this should be one thing that presents in, in your follow so usually is dependancy kind of labor. Mm-hmm . Like so many individuals, I imply, now we have dependancy to purchasing, to alcohol, to medication, to intercourse, to, how, I don’t know, so many alternative issues. So I’d think about that EMDR is absolutely helpful in supporting the discount of addictive habits. And and the way does it try this particularly? I,

Susie Morgan (32:07):

Properly, one of the crucial current type of essential items of type of connecting the dots that’s been made got here by the ACEs examine. And I’m unsure for those who or your listeners are conversant in it, nevertheless it’s the antagonistic Childhood Experiences examine. And like EMDR, it’s really been round for nearly as a lot time, nevertheless it didn’t actually get any press till extra just lately. However it’s a very primary examine that has simply been carried out on monumental hoards of individuals at this level. And it’s even, replicated by the, the CDC at this level. So we’re in a position to see it’s true throughout populations that early childhood antagonistic experiences, even when they occur simply as soon as, they create a vulnerability within the nervous system to develop psychological well being points, to develop bodily well being points and to develop addictions. And so, and it’s exponentially extra highly effective than anybody would ever suppose.

(33:03)
And so addictions is one thing that we very a lot can see. Early childhood trauma actually potentiates that vulnerability to dependancy later. And what’s fascinating by way of EMDR remedy and trauma reminiscence networks and all of that’s this concept that dependancy has actually two elements which might be happening with reminiscence networks. One is the trauma is a driver, in order that that ache goes to drive you to the factor that eases the ache. The opposite factor although, is the pull of the dependancy. And you may even have maladaptively linked constructive recollections which might be the, the important thing to the mind persevering with to hunt the excessive or the necessity being met by this addictive habits or substance, even when there’s tons and tons of penalties, or for those who by no means obtain that top to that diploma. Once more,

Betty Rocker (33:58):

I nearly perceive what you imply by constructive maladaptive. It’s nearly prefer it, are you able to simply make clear that a bit of bit extra? Yeah,

Susie Morgan (34:06):

Yeah, completely. So the instance I discovered from the one that I first discovered this from, was an instance of the, you recognize, a a bit of, a bit of boy who had an abusive father. And his dad was actually, actually into taking part in playing cards, was actually into poker. And and afterward, this man has now’s now presenting in remedy as a result of he has a playing dependancy. He’s misplaced his home, he’s misplaced his household, he’s misplaced the whole lot. So we’re gonna assume, okay, effectively, he discovered about, he discovered about playing from little, in order that’s simply what he grew as much as do, proper? Like, it’s that easy, nevertheless it’s not, the place it really solidified in his mind was, so keep in mind he has this trauma of neglect and, and abuse from his dad. Properly, sooner or later, you recognize, one of many guys isn’t there for the poker sport. So dad invitations his son to the poker desk that’s the place his mind impulsively felt cherished. His mind impulsively felt seen and included and seen by his dad. And fireworks go off within the mind. And it’s like that soldering of one thing the place it’s identical to, Ooh, poker equals I’m cherished, I’m lovable. And so from then on, doesn’t matter how a lot he loses, doesn’t matter all the results, the mind doesn’t even like take note of any of that knowledge. It’s coming, nevertheless it doesn’t matter. He retains in search of that should be met on the poker desk at no matter value.

Betty Rocker (35:45):

Bought it. Bought it. That’s a terrific instance, proper? That made a lot sense. You may see how addictions can type of so many differing types due to the complexity of that layer, these layers collectively. Like that’s, and that should be very arduous to unwind for individuals due to what a strong urge that’s, like at a deep core stage to be cherished, to be belong. These are deep human wants that all of us have, and after they’re not met, once we’re youthful, after which they’ve these layers on prime of them, and we’re simply on the market attempting to be grownups, coping with life and all of our many duties and, and repeating outdated patterns time and again and never understanding why, as an illustration. So who wants EMDR? Who can be a superb candidate for EMDR, would you say? I imply, we’ve talked about plenty of issues, however I feel lots of people listening are figuring out sure issues in what we’re speaking about. So let’s simply make it plain and easy. Like who can be a superb candidate?

Susie Morgan (36:46):

I suppose there’s somebody on the market who wouldn’t, however I haven’t met them. And, I imply, there are these individuals who actually grew up with that actually sturdy early attachment expertise. Their wants have been met. And, and I’ve seen these shoppers are available in as a result of they’d one single actually dangerous t like massive T trauma, and but their stuff resolves like that. Like that’s the place you see this like magic occur. Prefer it’s, it may be a matter of two periods and one thing horrific, identical to is is totally reprocessed by the nervous system

Betty Rocker (37:24):

As a result of they’ve a strong and safe attachment fashion and safety in themselves to start out with. Their basis is, is absolutely robust. After which from there, therapeutic is simpler, I assume you’ll say, proper?

Susie Morgan (37:37):

Sure. So that they’re confronted with traumas, they’re confronted with various things, and their mind is like, oh, I’ve bought this. And it, and it, it, you recognize, it takes that, that adaptive info reminiscence community and simply wraps it round and it’s identical to, yep. Like I discovered from that. Now it’s over and off you go. Hmm. So there are individuals on the market who’re like that, they’re simply extra uncommon.

(38:00)
Hmm. The remainder of us , and I say that together with myself, have much more vulnerability to those various things. And so when somebody is saying, you recognize, I’ve simply all the time been anxious, or I’ve simply all the time had these bouts of melancholy, that form of factor, or this self-doubt, this self-confidence subject the place I’m not reaching for that subsequent stage at work, or I’m not stepping out of, you recognize, like I, I do know I ought to be capable of do that, however I, however I’m, I’m stopping myself. I’m, I’m insecure, or I’m, you recognize, repeating these relationship patterns or that form of factor. Mm-hmm. All of this stuff are issues that make you a superb candidate to step into an EMDR therapist’s workplace. Mm mm Then the distinction is whether or not or not that EMDR therapist has eyes to see learn how to deal with you. Have they carried out adequate coaching in having the ability to actually, actually like, have that curiosity to, to take a look at what, what’s all this related to? The place did this, this studying happen that’s now left you in a sample of, you recognize, responding on this approach? What are all these reminiscence networks? And is your mind able to do the precise trauma reminiscence reprocessing, or do we have to do a bunch of fro entrance loading in order that we will get there? It’s oftentimes not the case that somebody can’t do EMDR remedy. It simply means somebody may must do some extra refined issues to get their mind prepared for it.

Betty Rocker (39:30):

You could have some fairly superb assets for individuals at completely different ranges with regards to EMDR. One factor that you’ve got is, I keep in mind the EMDR readiness course, which helps individuals like me work out whether or not we’re prepared or how, clarify that for me, for those who don’t thoughts.

Susie Morgan (39:50):

So this course has been round for plenty of years, and it’s really, I’d attribute, the triggering of making that course to you really, oh, cease . As a result of sooner or later you sat down with me and also you mentioned, Susie, I’m referring individuals out to EMDR remedy on a regular basis now, they usually’re not getting, from their remedy course of what I’m getting with you. And at that time, it brought about me to self-reflect and say, am I really doing one thing in a different way? Hmm. And, and I discovered I used to be, and it wasn’t simply because I’m good, it was often because I used to be actually hungry to be taught and insecure. Really, my very own insecurities have been in there the place I used to be like, I must be taught extra, I must be taught extra. I must be taught extra. So I had, I had gone to so many alternative trainings by so many alternative consultants within the subject, however then my, my energy actually is synthesizing issues collectively, curating and synthesizing these supplies right into a system basically.

(40:48)
And so through the years, there’s been a strategy that I’ve developed that began with that course and actually beginning to actually like, type of, conceptualize it and make it extra concrete that’s now developed out into some broader coaching packages that I can clarify. However, however the readiness course continues to be obtainable. It’s one thing that you are able to do by yourself. It’s nearly like a, a digital like workbook. And it takes you thru the readiness course of. So plenty of the steps that you just and I did collectively by way of these, these instruments and people, these abilities that you just developed initially, beginning to actually map out these trauma reminiscence networks so to actually do some work by yourself and determine does this EMDR remedy factor is sensible for me? Hmm. The opposite factor is that may be carried out alongside a therapist, of their course of with you.

(41:40)
For lots of people, it’s actually useful to have the assist of a therapist whereas they’re doing these processes. And the primary module of that course says takes you thru some questionnaire that say like, ought to, do you have to do that alone or not? Hmm. And so it, it may possibly allow you to suppose by that course of. The opposite factor that’s now obtainable, that’s additionally on the self-help web page of my web site, which is precisionemdr.com. So for those who go to the self-help web page, you’ll see two various things. One is that readiness course, however one can also be a free 45 minute course that truly explains this, this tree idea that we’ve been speaking about. Cool. So that you’re in a position to visualize the trauma reminiscence networks, that adaptive info gentle tree of data, in order that for those who begin EMDR remedy, you’re moving into actually understanding that entire formulation of it. And it goes extra into what processing seems like, that form of factor and what’s occurring within the mind throughout that. So, so that’s free to simply check out, there’s, no strings. Yeah.

Betty Rocker (42:45):

That’s an incredible reward. And what an incredible useful resource as effectively. After which I feel you’re additionally now, such as you’ve mentioned, you’ve developed your methodology, you’re now coaching different therapists at completely different, completely different ranges from the graduate stage to all the best way to individuals who’ve been practising for a very long time. Is that what you have been telling me? That’s superb. What, what does that contain?

Susie Morgan (43:08):

So there’s two main items. One is now we have an EMDRIA accepted primary coaching, which they’re the bigwigs. They, they, they take you thru a reasonably rigorous course of once you’re creating a program to say, does it, you recognize, verify all of the containers. And so we checked all of the containers and what was actually thrilling is, I used to be accepted to have the ability to, to essentially use all of this readiness and the goal sequencing, which is the, the why you do, which, which trauma reminiscence first, that form of factor. In addition to all of those attachment items into our primary coaching program. After which now we have additionally a sophisticated a set of programs. So it’s really a complete of 33 hours, half one and half two. However half one really goes by all of this readiness and, and fills within the gaps of what hasn’t been there in plenty of that conventional coaching that almost all therapists have gone by. After which half two goes into all of this fancy footwork round how can we restore the attachment system? How can we tackle these addictions? And that sparkle that these maladaptively linked recollections can have and all of that. So it’s, it’s a extremely sturdy superior course that folks can undergo

Betty Rocker (44:20):

A lot to know, so essential to be a well-trained practitioner and for us as individuals in search of remedy to know as a lot as we will about this in order that we will go into it eyes open, in search of this care. And in addition, you recognize, discern being discerning, I assume, about what we’re gonna obtain. I feel that’s, that’s so essential. Properly, you’ve shared your, web site with us and we will additionally observe you on social media, right. Wanna say your, your deal with,

Susie Morgan (44:55):

It’s @PrecisionEMDR. So it’s precisionEMDR all over the place. So whether or not that’s the web site or the deal with on Instagram or Fb, that’s, that’s the place you could find me and discover out what we’re doing. ’trigger I, it’s not simply me, however I even have gathered an outstanding staff of consultants. It’s really one of many distinctive items of our program is everybody who’s a guide on our coaching staff is an skilled in EMDR, in addition to oftentimes a specialty space or integration with one other remedy mannequin. So, so we will all be discovered there and it’s, it’s actually hopefully going to be increasingly more a strong useful resource for referral sources and all of that for individuals all around the, all around the nation. As a result of now we have people who find themselves going by our trainings who’re from far and wide.

Betty Rocker (45:42):

That’s great and great to consider the entire people who find themselves probably in search of EMDR or perhaps didn’t understand how helpful EMDR might be for them. And now we’ll have an extra useful resource to return to for details about it, for in search of a practitioner for it, or practitioner in search of extra coaching for it. It’s actually great what you’re creating. And thanks for all of the work that you just do on this world to make it a greater place. We respect you a lot. So thanks. Thanks a lot for approaching and speaking to us right this moment and sharing all of this actually invaluable info and insights. And thanks for the whole lot you’ve carried out for me as effectively. Like, I’d not be this model of the Betty Rocker with out you and your entire nice work. So all of you guys listening, I’m so glad that you just had an opportunity to fulfill Susie, ’trigger she’s simply unbelievable and I hope you look her up and lookup her work. And Susie, is there any, like, final phrases, something you wanna depart with us that I didn’t ask or something you wanna say?

Susie Morgan (46:37):

Actually, it’s simply wanting to specific my gratefulness for the chance to return in right here and discuss this and, and the, the, the platform that you’re utilizing throughout the board to assist, particularly ladies of their well being on all elements of issues. And EMDR is one thing that, such as you mentioned, it’s a buzzword on the market. Individuals discuss it, however they oftentimes don’t know sufficient about it to know the way it may really hook up with them, the way it may really be, actually perhaps much more powerfully carried out if it’s one thing that they’d a, you recognize, eh, expertise with earlier than. Issues like that. So I’m simply actually grateful that this was essential to you to do and, and simply thanks for having me.

Betty Rocker (47:22):

Yay. Properly, we sit up for speaking to you once more very quickly. And, thanks guys a lot for listening. Yow will discover the entire hyperlinks and assets over on the present notes web page for this podcast episode, in addition to Susie’s hyperlinks that she’s already shared. So sit up for speaking to you once more. Until subsequent time, I’m Betty Rocker, and you’re so superior, so flawsome and superb.